CB: Thanks for talking with us. As always we ask our artist to think back to the earliest time they can remember dancing.

BN: You might not believe this, but I was little. Maybe I was about 5 years old. The Babye Falle used to come around playing the drum and seeking charity. As soon as I would hear the drum I would come out and dance. After a while, when the Baye Falle would come and ask "where is the dark skin kid with the blue eyes?"They would look for me. Then in 77 or 78 when the Magi cube was being introduced, the company would send people to the neighborhoods with little stuff [promotional], cups and bowls and stuff and there would be a party on the corner. I would come out and dance and I always won the prize. When everyone saw the prize they would ask me "where do you get that?" And I would say "I won it!"

CB: How did your parents feel about the fact you enjoyed dancing and seemed to be good at it?

BN: My parents didn't like it. They wanted me to go to school, but after a while they didn't have any choice. I'm going to dance. They said it was not what I was supposed to do. "You're not a griot, you're a guer (noble person)." That's what they would tell me. A guer is just supposed to sit back and watch the artists and give money. But even though I dance, I'm still guer! You see me at the tenebre. I dance and I give money to the other dancers too.

CB: Where are you from in Senegal and what is your ethnic group?

BN: I was born in Kaolack. I'm mixed Wolof and Sarakhole.

CB: So when did you first start dancing more seriously?

BN: When I was fifteen, first tour in Kaloack, there used to be a big festival in Dakar for young people, 15 to 20, singing, dancing, everything. All the cities take a group. I was in the group from Kaolack.

CB: Did your group win the competition?

BN: It wasn't a competition. It was just the different schools performing. After that I went back to Kaolack and kept going to school. But the arts were just in me. Oh, wait a minute, my first dance group was a little group in Pikene in 1982 when I was twelve. I was staying with a relative and we had a kids group. The schools performing was after that. Then in 1988 I started professional dance, like the ballet style of dance company. I was very serious.

CB: What group were you with?

BN: The Sotiba Boys with Ousman Fall and all of them. I stayed with them until 1992. I stayed with them but I was also with Blaise Senghor and the Ballet Afrique Noire, with Mansul Gueye. After that I went to the National Ballet in 1995.

CB: Were you in Sotiba Boys with Pape N'Diaye?

BN: No, I was before the young ones. I came up with the twins [Assane and Osseynou Kouyate]. For four years I traveled with the twins in the ballet, and then after us came Demba and Pape N'diaye.

CB: How did the ballet find out about you ?

BN: I went for an audition. They played and I danced and then I was told to come to the company [to join] the next day and that was it.

CB: Well how did they find out about you so that you were invited to audition?

BN: Oh, they traveled around and watched people as they were developing, so they could know who is dancing and how well are they doing. I was with the Africa Jamono Ballet. We used to go to Daniel Serrano and watch the National Ballet perform. We would jump on the stage and dance and they would they see you when you jumped on the stage and the directors would keep an eye on you, because they know they may need you later for the company.

CB: How long were you with the ballet?

BN: I danced with them until 1998. I was modeling at the same time and sometimes I would get permission to leave the ballet and go with the modeling agency. So I would go and come back. I finally left the ballet to stay with the modeling.

CB: Anyone who knows you or has seen you knows you have a very highly developed fashion sense. Is that where it came from, when you were modeling?

BN: Yes, that's where I learned about hair and clothes. That was where I learned how to put it all together. I had been modeling for a long time. I started modeling in 1989 and the Sotiba Boys sometimes did modeling because we were sponsored by the company Sotiba, which made the Senegalese fabric.

CB: We also saw you in a video. What was happening there?

BN: Was that the one where I was wearing black clothes?

CB: Yes.

BN: And I was real skinny?

CB: That's the one.

BN: [laughing] you know in Senegal when you are popular the people want to see your face. I think that was in 1990 or 1991. The people making the video will come and give you a couple of CFAs and ask you to be in the video. Just to look fashionable. I was in a lot of videos. [laughing] oh, my goodness I was so skinny then.

CB: When did you decide to come to the US?

BN: In 1998. I came for a fashion show. We had a couple of shows in Houston and in NY. I just stayed. Then I went back in 2001. I came here with the fashion people. I was over here for months and I didn't know anyone who did African dance. Then a friend of mine said that he knew these people who did African dance. They were African Americans but they did African dance. They put me in touch with Kauna Mujamal and Kabibi Ajanku from Sankofa Dance Theater. I had met them in Senegal before. At the time, they couldn't understand my accent or my English, but they got directions and came to where I was. When they came, I danced for them and they loved it. I started teaching for them for a couple of months and I choreographed some numbers. I was so happy to be dancing, I missed it so much.

After that I met Willa, she was teaching at a church. She hurt her Achilles tendon and she gave me the class. It was successful and it got bigger. We started at the church, then went to Robert Coleman elementary school, then to Coppin State College. For a while we were in downtown Baltimore at the Eubie Blake Arts Center and now we're at the Y.

CB: We've been running a series of articles on whites participating in African dance and drum culture. The last part is going to be in the same issue with your interview. Do you have an opinion of the growing numbers of whites in the culture?

BN: They love our culture and we should be proud. Some times it's hard to situate African culture in some places. But everything else they do has some element of African dance or drum in it, jazz, modern, hip hop. So, they might as well learn it because it will help them with the other things they do.

CB: Do you worry that they will change the culture in a way that Africans will loose control over the product, particularly as you see more white dance companies forming?

BN: No. It can't happen. They are not going to change us and we're not going change them. I think its just business when they form their own companies. They are trying to respect the culture by wearing the clothes and doing the hair and the make up. They see it and like it so bad they want to copy it. I don't think they can co-op. And even if they tried, it wouldn't work. Sometimes we as black people just have to let things be. Just be who you are and don't spend time fighting each other. We need to support each other. If we support each other, whatever we can do will grow. For us [black people] it should be about culture, but right now, its not culture any more, even for us its just business. The community is broken down. There is fighting every where. There will be two groups in one town and they won't support each other. I'll go to a city expecting to see the people I know and when I get there I say, "Where is so and so?" And someone will tell me "Oh, we don't do anything with them." That is crazy. We're all trying to have fun. If any one has a workshop it should be full. There should never be a workshop that only has five or six people. But many people learn their five or six steps and that little bit they know is enough for them. But you know they are African [speaking of African Americans] just like me, a little further away, but still, so I can't criticize what they do. We all have jobs, all have relationship, all have family, but we do this on the side to have fun, to add to life. We have to learn to forgive each other for times when we got hurt. Sometimes, I travel around and it is just not fun any more because of all the fighting and because the classes are getting smaller and smaller.

CB: Could that also be because there are so many conferences now?

BN: Yes! Every month someone is having a conference!

CB: Sometimes two a month. And you have to wonder how are these conferences being supported because dancers only have so much money to spend just on dance.

BN: That is true. Even the oldest and biggest conferences are suffering with low attendance. When I'm on the West Coast the people tell me they just can't travel this year. It is too expensive and they don't have the money. When we have so many conferences we are missing the power of the community getting together. You used to be so excited because at a conference you would see everybody, But now its not like that anymore.

CB: and they are getting so expensive to put on.

BN: Too expensive. And everyone is getting different money. It shouldn't be like that. Every artists should be paid the same and every one should know what the cost is.

CB: We have been thinking about that a lot. It might be good if the conference organizers, the artists and directors of companies got together for a meeting to discuss issues in the community and hash out some agreements. Just a business meeting - no dance classes attached. Do you think the artists would come out for that?

BN: Some would. The ones who really understand about the business needs would. I would come but you would have some artists who are not going to come. If you don't pay them to come, they are not going to come.

CB: We know that sometimes you struggle in Baltimore with getting drummers. Many dance classes are also facing this problem. What do you think is causing the shortage?

BN: We don't really have a shortage of drummers. Just look at DC there are plenty of drummers there, but now we don't have a generation of drummers who are learning and play because each time they are learning and improving. Now our drummers won't play unless they get paid money. So, they don't want to drum for class. But if there is a show where money is available they want you to hire them for that. But being paid for the show is the reward for helping and playing for class. They don't see it that way though. If you can't pay them, they won't come. We need some young dancers and drummers now. Our community is full of the old regulars who continue to fight with each other and even they are dropping out.

CB: So what things are you involved in now?

BN: I'm teaching in this program called New World. It's for children whose parents are on drugs. It's a program for their kids. They do plays and dance and they love it. Then in June, I'm going to Chicago to work with Muntu. I'll be doing some choreography for them. That is going to be fun.

CB: We've already talked about some of the problems you see in the community, so let's bring our talk to an end on a positive note, what do you love about the culture?

BN: I love dancing. I was born a dancer. I will dance anywhere, with anyone. Everything comes after that. I will always dance for myself, because I love it. I can do it with just one drummer. If you love something, you have to do it for yourself, no matter what any one else is doing. We don't know what future is going to come. But, if we work on stopping the negative, we can make whatever the future is better.

CB: Wise words to end with. Thank you so much Babacar.